THE LIVEGAN PODCAST

E42: Earthling Ed

August 21, 2018 Live Vegan / Earthling Ed
THE LIVEGAN PODCAST
E42: Earthling Ed
Show Notes Transcript

Earthling Ed discusses his career as an animal rights activist and offers advice on how we can more quickly achieve a totally vegan world, including social media tips. Get your pen and paper ready.
End All Animal Oppression
The Official Animal Rights March
Earthling Ed's personal webpage

News of the Day
Excuse of the Day: Deserted Island
Activist Tip of the Day: Use non-speciesist language

The Livegan Podcast Patreon Page
The Livegan Podcast Facebook Page
The Livegan Podcast Instagram Page

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It's pretty cool that you are literally on the other side of the ocean talking to us right now. It's crazy technology, right? Technology. I know we take it for granted, but it's like it's insane. It is. Welcome back everyone to another episode of the live Vegan podcast. I'm your host Kevin Lahey, and this is a podcast featuring inspirational leaders in the animal rights community and helping Vegan activists become as effective as possible. We're joined once again by our cohost and legendary legionnaire of logic, Ben Le Roi. What's up, Ben? You make me sound so awesome.

Kevin Lahey:

I think that's the best intro have given you so far. You're so good for my ego. Well, we, uh, we have an amazing guest for you guys today. As always, we are really excited to have earthling ed on the show. A first, I want to say that social justice movements don't just when they, they win once and only once people support them. For example, gay marriage wasn't legalized in the USA until the majority of citizens agreed with gay marriage. Same was true for recreational use of marijuana and all kinds of examples throughout history. The law follows the will of the people and politicians, for the most part are followers, not leaders, and that means that true leaders are those who steer the collective consciousness of humanity toward a particular truth. Those who are brave enough to engage in discourse about unpopular thoughts for extended periods of time are the ones who actually transformed these thoughts from unpopular to popular. Every social justice movement has its leaders in with us today is one of those leaders, one of the current leaders of the animal rights movement, earthling Ed. His videos have reached millions and his effect of popular, realizing veganism is simply incalculable. So earthling Ed, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. That was a nice introduction. Kevin's good at that. Kevin, you're great. You deserve it. Thank you. I appreciate it very much.

Ben Le Roi:

All right. I want to start. Start this conversation off by by finding out your secret, so anybody that follows you and knows you knows that you have this, this crazy ability to just remain composed so you could be in a discussion with someone who's throwing out the most ridiculous excuses to, to not be Vegan. Someone that's even getting aggressive and loud and you know, it might be even yelling and pointing at you and yet you just stay so calm. So how the hell do you do that?

Earthling Ed:

It's an interesting question really is something that had to work on a lot radio and when I. When I first started, it wasn't as easy as it feels like it can be now and it's always. It's always challenging and it's always liked certain aspects or certain things that people do or say that kind of rally you up. But I remember when I first started I was. I was pretty angry and I came from a place of frustration and I think a lot of the time when we go Vegan we become quite frustrated the world and we couldn't quite angry at people because we think it's such a simple, such a simple idea. Veganism. We think as soon as we tell someone about it, they're all going to change and they don't very, very ready to do change so quickly on the spot. And so I became angry, quite misanthropic because I could understand how you suppose it'd be good compassionate people were able to do these things. And I remember when I first I talk to people in the streets, the conversation would, wouldn't often end up as well as I'd hoped that they would, um, they had to self reflect because I can go, what is it that I'm doing this meaning that the messages and gained fruit properly. And it was because I was coming across, coming across a broad and frustrated and angry and disappointed and judgmental and I had to self reflect a lot because I was like, well, who am I doing this for? You know, if I, if I want to be an advocate for the animals, than I need to be doing the best that I can see on almost anything less than trying to best is it an injustice and a disservice to them. So I kind of had to reevaluate what I was doing, explore kind of how I was communicating to people and what got what I could do that'd be more effective. And it was just as simple as just saying, well, how would I like to have been spoken to? And I'm on what would have been effective for me before I was Vegan because, you know, none of us would like to feel judged. None of us would like to put the finger pointed to us and you know, be accused of being a murderer on animal abuse or whatever, you know, terminology. We often throw at people that consume animals. And I thought, well, I just want someone to simplify it to me to make me understand why it's an important thing to make me understand why it's such a simple thing. And so I started to ask questions and I start to research and educate myself as much as possible, and it kind of dawned on me that when I get most angry is when I didn't know what to say and someone will give me an excuse, you know, food change, humane slaughter, whatever it was, because I didn't know how to respond properly. I'd get angry at myself and then I get angry at them for making me feel this way. Then I get angry that was there, the animals down. It was just this vicious cycle of anger that just meant, now he's becoming ineffective. And so the more I educated myself, the more knowledgeable could become about the most common excuses, the easier it was for me to retort to people's excuses and having the knowledge to actually be able to explain myself properly. I could be calm or that could be more, um, in children aspect and kind of reduce my anger and frustration because I don't need to fill on grant. I know what I'm going to say to someone. And I know that when I'm going to say is going to hopefully make people question themselves and so it's been a long process and it's always a process of learning because people always have something new to say to you. Those have different characteristic or behavior that can be frustrating or aggravating. So it's definitely a learning process, a learning curve for me. It came down to knowledge and education and ultimately just practicing what is that learned that it was going to ask you where you got your Jedi training. So went summer academy or something. And I wanted

Kevin Lahey:

to know how much it costs because I would like to sign up. Yeah, I remember you saying in person I've seen you speak live and uh, and it was really powerful, really moving you, you did a great job really connecting the message to, uh, to the crowd. But I remember one of the most powerful things you said was, we're running out of time. That, that the sense of urgency is, is really powerful and important. And we have to act now. So when I hear you answer the question that I'm Ben just just asked you and then I think of that, it's this balance of you know, patients versus versus the sense of urgency. So how do, how do you play with that? How do you, how do you realize that like the time is now, but I also need to be patient so that I can be, I guess a more effective communicator.

Earthling Ed:

Yeah. I mean as you say, the time at the time is now literally as we don't have the time to spy, which is why we have to be as effective as we randomly and we need to make sure we're not wasting opportunities or at least the opportunities that we're having certainly productive and effective is coming from and I think that that's how I try and balance it is it is that kind of like contradiction, almost juxtaposition of trying to be patient in common and almost nurturing people started being conclusion but also being aware that we have to get them there as quickly as possible and that is difficult. But for me, this is just what I've learned to be most effective and the experiences that I've had with the, with the, I guess the skills that I've kind of taught myself, um, and, and that's how able I am able to do it because if I ever feel like I'm going to get this straight, I feel that anger, I want to snap, I want to say something that might be quite self serving but not necessarily productive. I just think, okay. I think of the animals and the farms, I think of the environment being destroyed every second and it kind of grounds me, levels me out. And it makes me realize that that kind of my emotional reaction, that moment, although it may make me feel good, is not going to be helpful if I just going to be counter intuitive to the mission I want to achieve. So if I think about the horrible things, um, which can seem quite strange because you think if you followed the terrible things that would make you react more emotionally. But I find it does the opposite for me. It grounds me in levels me out. It makes me think, right, I've got to be focused, I've got to keep on point, I've got to keep on mission and I've just got to do what it is I can do to help this person. And I guess that the beauty of film in interviews like I often do is it takes the pressure off that conversation away because it's not about me telling that person I'm speaking to necessarily Vegan. It's about that person. I'm speaking to you, revealing excuses that I can then debunk that people that watch the videos can see the contradictions and see the flawed logic and people's responses and people's arguments. So by filming it gives me that sense that it's going to achieve, uh, a wider range than just that individual I'm speaking to in the moment. And, and that helps me because that again reinforces why have to be effective. Because if I do a bad job then, then I'm not going to upload that video because then that's not gonna help people. It's going to send people. Why is it that these, these pressures and almost out of abilities that I have and I put on myself to make sure I stay in line, stay in check.

Ben Le Roi:

Speaking of, of logic and emotion, and I was, I was actually just about to ask this. You, um, you kind of alluded to it, but you, you have this w when you interact with people you stick to logic. You don't, you don't seem to get too emotional. You're and you're not the, the, the pull at the heartstrings, a kind of activist. You just, it's a simple message. You share the simple message and, and you do it in such a, such an eloquent way. So is that, is that intentional? Are you intentionally trying to, you know, keep the emotion out of it and just just make it a simple logical argument?

Earthling Ed:

I think it's probably a reflection of myself and how I'm. I've always liked trying to keep things kind of pragmatic and I try. I try and be as logical as possible and just in just my personal life and I think that's a reflection of maybe who I am, that I respond well to that logic and I, I so wholeheartedly believe that as individuals we should scrutinize everything we're told and we should look for flaws in arguments that would give it and look for flaws and you know, in philosophies and ways of life because that's how we can question and I'm forever and to stand wherever these ways of thinking in these ways of life is something we truly aligned with. So I kind of want to give people the logic because it can help me through that personal scrutinization that they themselves should go through when they're confronted with something like veganism or, or any or any way of thinking. And although I believe that the emotional aspect definitely works for a lot of people, I think unanimously as a species we've become quite a logic driven. We'd hope you'd be. We've become quite logic driven and I think if we can nudge people through that, we have an educational, very rational, very logical, very well thought out, very well perceived documents. It's a lot more effective law run because it gives people less room to squeeze and sometimes if you go down the emotional arguments people might respond to, but then they might feel that they've been cheated a little bit, like they'd been manipulated to feel a certain way, but if you just use logic and rational thinking, no one's been manipulated into that because they themselves see the clarity and the argument that's been made. So I think for me it's effective, but it's also a reflection of probably who I am and the way that I like to scrutinize things in question kind of things as well. What do we do when logic and reason don't work? I mean, yes. This is something I think about. I humans quite like sheep and I mean not in a good way in the sense that we kind of have that mentality and we like to kind of follow up as they do and we don't like to be outcast. We like to feel included and, and kind of part of something bigger than just us and the, and the way I see it is there's enough people that are alive and, and, and who are open minded enough to that logic into that emotional kind of reasoning that there'll be enough people that will not basis your go vegan and hopefully the people that are kind of more ardently against now, people that kind of don't want to change for those very good reasons. I'm, I kind of hold out hope that they will just follow the trends and they will, as veganism becomes more normalized and kind of more mainstream, they'll naturally drift into that. Um, and I think, you know, the beautiful thing about veganism is there's, there's so many tangents in so many ways, and it, it's, it's multifaceted. There's so much good about veganism. It's the animals, it's the environment, you've crushed human rights, you've got health implications, so you know, health issues as well from consuming animal products that is this something that everyone and although, so it might not realize it now in a few years, they might come across something on my hair something or you know, the effects of climate change might become more, um, kind of obvious and they might become more destructive on, on even on a personal scale and that might just peak someone's interest to change. So I believe everyone has the capacity to change. Some people just need a little bit longer to get on the right side of history, but in time everyone will get there or at least we certainly hope so.

Ben Le Roi:

Let's, let's talk a little bit about, uh, about excuses. You, you get a, I'm sure you've heard them all. I mean, you deal with people a lot. You just, you know, people that you engage with street people that, uh, that may come to your, uh, your speaking engagements. So I got two questions for it. What's the, the oddest excuse that you've ever gotten that just made you shake your head and think what I don't even understand. And, and what excuses did you use before you were Vegan?

Earthling Ed:

That's two good questions. The first one. Wow. Okay. I had some strange. So I think one that I had quite recently that kind of just had to like what we were talking about there was that and, and he said, I wish we shouldn't go vegan because of that. And I said, well what do you mean? And he said, well, you know, a lot of that, the majority of banks are actually employed by the animal agriculture industry is because you know, they go to farms all, you know, they haven't sign all the slaughterhouse. It's actually the majority of that or at least, you know, a huge amount of them are written the industry. And so if we get rid of the industry then there's gonna be a whole bunch of vets that won't have a job. And I said, well, can't they just get jobs, you know, rescuing, you know, they'll need jobs on sanctuaries on the jobs and veterinary clinics. And he's a, well, you know, a lot of these facts, what we trained to for dogs and cats, they'll be trained for farm animals. And I thought, wow, so we need to kill animals because of people who wants to protect animals, losing their jobs. And that will, that one that blew my mind for a moment that, um, so that's probably one of the weirdest ones they've had. And that was quite recent. Um, but in terms of ones I used to use, I think they were quite generic. I was a big believer in the free range myth in the humane slaughter. I always used to say if I could afford organic, I buy organic. Um, so I was kind of one of those kind of probably well fairest, humane slaughter in a humane meat kind of people. I think that that's why, how true and it also that vegans are weird and strange and I just kind of thought it was our rights, we animals and then I think I was really quite generic and it was nothing too unusual about what I said, but I was just brought up in a very kind of, um, the family unit. I was brought up and you know, my Stepdad was very much against vegetarians. We didn't know what vegans who were growing up, but vegetarians were a big laugh, you know, we had no, we didn't just stick to say in the, you know, the generic committees. We have a way to have wild bar and kind of, you know, square little rabbit, you know, unusual things. It was kind of something that we enjoy doing. Um, and so I think that kind of stuff and that you now is in, was quite stifling in terms of, of embracing simply vegetarianism and, and, and obviously veganism. Um, and so I think I was just kind of very deep root in this self-entitled ness that I was allowed to do this. And by being bond human, that was somehow a determining factor in who I couldn't, who I couldn't, you know, inflict pain and suffering upon. I think it was probably okay. There's Ego, arrogance, kind of roots into, uh, into animal eating. But thankfully, um, I was influenced by my, you know, my surroundings influenced by friendship groups, influenced by my potter and that kind of eroded away. But yeah, I think it was that self entitled human thing that so many of us, how this is a species that kind of probably stuck me on track to consume animal products

Kevin Lahey:

was. Well you kind of just mentioned that it took time over time. You had lots of conversations with other people, but it was there like one spark that did it for you that said, Oh yeah, humane, humanely raised animals get sent to the same slaughterhouse. Or like, where did you make that connection that, oh, did you see a video or did you read a book or did you just connect it on your own?

Earthling Ed:

Yeah, I guess that's a good question. That I, I was, you know, we always kind of sometimes say that, oh, you know, people don't necessarily know what's going on behind these doors. They're not aware, but I think that is true in many senses. It's a little bit disingenuous because we all know the animals have to die for these products. And I'd heard about things that happen to animals. I knew that, you know, we have this thing in England, I mean maybe it's in Canada or North America, it's called black pudding is basically made for my bloods and stuff. It's a very horrible thing. Um, and, and that was something that we, we'd always laugh about my family. We'd sell the black pudding but don't talk about where it's come from. Um, and so there was these little, these little things that I was aware of and then I had some vegetarian friends at university and they never spoke about it. But I was around that. And as around it, it became quite normalized to me. The concept of animals. And we, my partner and I, we know we weren't thinking about it, but all of the blue, we kind of came across this story and basically the story was in the BBC news, it was talking about his truck carrying 7,000 chickens crashed on the way to a slaughter house here in England. And I remember we read it and we were just kind of shocked for a moment. And we were like, wow, this is, this is terrible. And we were forced to kind of connect the products that we're eating with the animals who they know they were coming from. And we were big fried chicken. Chicken was kind of the meat weedy everyday. The animal that we do every day. I did not afraid. We have chicken breasts. It was KFC from, from the evening before in there. And we just felt like hippocrates. And that kind of was like a light bulb moment where I was like, hang on a second, you know, I'm paying for animals to die and I can't justify this sentence. It's horrible. And by me feeling sorry is animals, I am accepted upon myself that thinks this is wrong. And so I kind of, we decided to go vegetarian after that and I kind of run with the idea and then eventually in my partner got to watch and that the tipping point of veganism. Um, but it, it, you know, I'm, I'm quite, I was stubborn, you know, and, and I, and I said no, a lot of logical and pragmatical bathroom, that's kind of a way of probably me trying to disguise the fact that I'm just overly stub it in that sentence. And Oh, you know, I just want to scrutinize things. But the fact is I was very much against going Vegan even when I was vegetarian and I thought it was weird and strange and, and extreme and militant. I just didn't understand that. And I felt vegans were people that just ate fruit that dropped from trees and I just couldn't get my head around it. And frankly my partner maybe watching other things and that, that changed everything. You know, the whole philosophical aspect of speciesism, you know, the, the, the animal cruelty. That's the page there in the film and, and uh, that woke me up and kind of shook me awake, but um, it was, it was a process and that's frustrating because I want people to go vegan overnight, but then that's kind of hypocritical because I realized that for me it was a process that took, you know, a good year or so to get to that point, well eight, nine months or so. So it's difficult because we were talking about time and how we need time. The time is now when things need to change with the same time I, myself, I'm a kind of a living embodiment of the fact that it's not always as easy as just saying change and people doing it and that's it. That's when it becomes challenging because it's how we most effective, how do we get people to the point we want them to be at, but as quickly as possible. It's kind of what we were saying now I'm a little bit off tangent from what you're saying, but it was, it was a process and it did take some time and finally I was nurtured for Obama.

Kevin Lahey:

It's interesting because I had the same approach to veganism. I also thought it was weird and extreme and I didn't want to go that far in that direction and uh, and Ben and I have had this discussion many, many times, you know, out of the vegans who exists now, we've kind of taken informal polls like who has done the, the slow progression to veganism and who just did it overnight. It does seem like there's, there's a pretty even split, but we have to have a conversation for both parties because a lot of people will take the, the, the slow but steady pace towards veganism. So, so we have to be ready to, uh, I guess welcome every reduction, reduce, uh, Terry aneurysm, if you will, you know, and embrace that towards veganism.

Earthling Ed:

Yeah. I always feel like it's honest. We promote veganism as being the absolute and as long as we don't promote anything less than veganism, we should always help people in that journey. And as long as we never fall short and justify anything else, then yeah. I think every everything that someone does, we should applaud and help them as long as you keep pushing them in that direction and keep emphasizing that that veganism at the end, this is the final point where we all have to reach and it, it, it, it is a challenge because I think that we can have some times that kind of puritanical is almost like an ideological law mentality that any, you know, that we shouldn't help people and we shouldn't judge people and, and we should be like, it isn't good enough. It isn't good enough. And, and although she'd never raise show people that what they're doing is good enough, we should still give them the platform to keep making those progressions and keep making those steps forward. Otherwise we just stifle people's progress, which is counterproductive to what we want to do. You know?

Ben Le Roi:

Yeah. My, my philosophy is very similar. It's just as long as the end goal is the same, as long as we're aiming for the same finish line, then we need to try everything we can. So if that's the way that someone's going to get to that finish line, and like you said, we don't lose track of that end goal than a then how can we be critical? So I'm, okay, what do we need? What do we need more activists today?

Earthling Ed:

What, what are, what not? What are we not doing enough? What do we need to do more of? Wow, that's it. That's a good question.

Kevin Lahey:

I like to think about it in, in terms of this way, if we had a superman who was like invincible and he could do everything, what is the goal is get superheroes with. I love superheroes. Comic Book Guy. Uh, but yeah, like imagine somebody was just the best at every possible thing. Where would you put them? Where would you say, you know, we need help in this area over here?

Earthling Ed:

That's a good question. Um, I think people, I think what we should all do is as, as vegans and especially as activist is, um, educate ourselves as much as physically possible and, and make sure that we, we, as far as we can have an answer for everything. So I, I, I, you know, I'm a bit biased, but I think conversation is, is, is so key because it's fruit conversation, we can influence people in our media areas, but we can also influence people in a wider areas as well. And so to have one kind of one form of activism or one thing is it's difficult to pinpoint, but I just think we should all try and master that kind of effective communication is always a process and the training and, but I think if we can do that, it just means that those interactions we have, which are very opportunistic and very important, whether they were friends or family or people or street outreach events or you know, even people online through the dialogue we have on social media as long as we, if we can master how to do that and master the techniques and the thought process behind influencing people on those levels, then they in turn will have conversations with their friends and families and that local groups and it expands very quickly doing it like that. Um, so I think if we could, that's what I would say is just to master at least as best as we can, try and teach ourselves to be more effective communicators because there's, you know, there's opportunities pretty much everyday to have a conversation about veganism with someone. So we need to make sure there's opportunities have been taken and be taken effectively. So it is difficult though because you know, if we had like a superman, it was amazing. It's stuff we want someone who's maybe getting a bit more of a political element who's maybe got some lobbying expertise and now you could maybe go in that aspect. I don't know that this is so much that needs to be done in so many ways of doing it, which I guess is good because it means there's something for everyone and no one has to feel tied down. Students don't necessarily feel good out, but if we can just try and kind of narrow it down and simplify everything will, all of these things, regardless of what form of activism they are required, just good communication. And if we can get that right, then that'll help us in pretty much any form of activism.

Kevin Lahey:

Awesome. That's a, to me I took away was superman. Should do everything. Do it all. That would be great to just do it all, please. All right. So I've heard you say before that you support all forms of activism. So that's kind of in line with what you were just talking about. Um, I, I, I want to know what you think the biggest obstacle is, although you just sort of alluded to it. Maybe it's an objection. Like is there one common theme I feel like you maybe and James Aspe or I don't know, the two of you, I don't know who's traveled more and talk to more people, but you're definitely up there. You've probably had the most conversations with people about this. So. So like what's the most common theme, the most common obstacle that you find?

Earthling Ed:

I think, I think it comes down to taste and convenience and people will go through a whole shpiel of trying to justify it. Like, oh well we need it. Or they'll try and just find a moral level, but really all these conversations kind of come down to, well, I like how it tastes and it's convenient for me to do what I've always done. So I strongly believe that if we, if we want to kind of push this, this movement quicker, we need, well we need activists, but we also need good food technology. And that's happening now. We're doing some amazing, amazing products beyond me, you know, is a good example of that. Um, and the activist kind of give people the why. So when they go into a supermarket next, you know, when they see that beyond Meat Burger, the need to have a reason why they choose that burger over the cow flesh burger and the food technology gives them the how by having those products there and by making them convenient and tasty. So it's kind of that, that, that, that joke me nuts, but I do strongly thing that tasting for convenience are the big two factors. And if people get a product that is the same that nourishes them the same way, that satisfies them the same way. And it's competitively priced than, um, than that will be a huge step forward in, in, in changing people and encourage them to be Vegan.

Kevin Lahey:

So you would say we should send superman to the food scientists world.

Earthling Ed:

That's a good one. There we go. Yeah. To make more vegan options. Right? Absolutely. And um, yeah, he's, he should make the best vegan food know, just absolutely top notch Vegan food and it's, it's a center. That's how we do it. And it's cheap because he can produce so much so quickly.

Ben Le Roi:

All right. So all this movement needs is a, an alien baby to get dropped off on this planet is their planet is blowing up that has super powers. Okay, got it. Yeah. Easy peasy, right? Yeah, exactly. So, all right, so I made this point when we had a james asked beyond, but uh, but I feel it's really relevant with you as well. The, this movement has, has shifted a lot in the last, I'd say maybe like five years where it used to be all the leaders in this movement where the, uh, the academics, the phds, if basically people that have written a book, a well researched book that uh, you know, they have a whole bunch of letters after their names. So now it's now the leaders leaders in this movement are the social media stars, right? The are maybe start the social media activists and, and there's this, there's this been a huge, a huge shift. So how can we, how do you, I mean it's, it's, it's been huge for you. It's got you millions and millions of users around the world. How do, how, what advice do you have for someone else? How can we use social media to

Earthling Ed:

get this message out more? Yeah, I mean it's this, it's this single path is tool that we have to spread changes. Also the most current be an accessible tool as well. And I think, I think what we, there's a few ways of looking at it. You can produce your own content and I think if someone wants to do that, then then a couple of things, it's obsolete. Perseverance, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's challenging and you've got to be, you've got to be persevering, going to make sure that you're putting a lot of time to make the quality goods as best as you can. So I think that's really, that's really key because it does, it does take time to build up these, these kind of, um, well to build up to a place where you feel like you're getting rewards from, as you know, the views that you want because you can put your heart and soul into something and at the beginning of the early days you might get like 10, 15 years, may get 100 views and, and that's a really great thing, but it can often feel that you love working for not much reward. So it's, I think perseverance is absolutely key. But then the beautiful thing about social media is you don't even need to produce your own content necessarily just about, you know, sharing stuff. It's about commenting on stuff, about giving reactions. And it can seem a bit slate say posts, but it's all about these algorithms and the more, you know, reactions in the more kind of, um, you know, engagement, there isn't a post that the more it gets pushed up and the more rich it gets, the more engaged when it gets. So it's, you know, it's all about just kind of making sure that we're pushing other people's content that we're making sure those get engaged with making sure it's getting, seeing Sharon as much as we can, you know, physically sending videos to people are sending posts to people via whatsapp or whatever. So they definitely see it, um, and, and kind of doing it that way, but it's important to kind of look at algorithms and look at how these social media platforms and work in. I think it's really good to post stuff on our own timelines and our own page. It's not just sharing stuff, actually physically posting stuff because then it gets seen by more friends and family. Um, so yeah, it's just a mountain of doing what we can. It's easy. You go on your phone, you can just share five things a day or whatever about, you know, all the different aspects of veganism and people will pick it up and they will read it and you know, people always on their phones and always looking for something to do. When a board, they're going to break at work, they're on the bus, whatever, and they just want to read. I see something to distract themselves. So take advantage of that and just share stuff and comment and engage with people on the frats. You know, maybe someone's asking a question about veganism. Then get in there, jump in there and engage with them and ask the questions they have and help them and foster those communities. Because you know, if you look at say anyone's platform considered to maybe have a good platform social media wise, that platform. The reason it works is because there's a community of people that are actually responding to comments and doing that and helping them and I think that's what I really love about these pages. And then youtube pages and facebook pages. It's not just about the person who's necessarily owning the page or making the content, it's about the whole community that's being fostered there. So I think that's a wonderful thing you just said post versus share. I didn't know that it that you get more people to see it if you post on your own page on facebook, is that right? So facebook have changed. They've changed. The algorithm is recently. And how do you learn these things? First of all, you've got to look at flights for the tech blogs and the tech sites and stuff and see what they're talking about. Because facebook, you know, they could have a lot of criticism and what they're doing now is they're trying to make the platform or kind of friends and family based again, so it's a page like mine. If you share something for mind, not necessarily everyone who follows you is going to see it, but if you maybe take the video while you take the content and are you write a status and post on your page, then it will have more people see it. Because the way the algorithm is working, it's all very confusing. But um, yeah.

Kevin Lahey:

Do you have any others? Like that's a really good specific tip for increasing our social media effectiveness. Is there anything else you could, you could help us with here? Like what, what else have you found to be really effective? You have millions of views and we would love to learn from, from you how like how do you get so many people to watch?

Earthling Ed:

I think um, it's really important that when we, when we share stuff and post stuff we think about audience, we think about, you know, kind of analytics and saying facebook the average view in Spanish about free seconds. So you need to make sure that if you're posting a video those first three seconds a gripping and make people want to watch. So things like that are really important to don't put like a big pie to the beginning or how oh go nation. Because people who want to get straight into it, I think that's uptight and Rehab for a lot of people when they watch videos on phones are even on computers is muted. And so if you have subtitles, people are much more likely to stop and watch it and engage with it because they can still hear it if you know, but they don't have to listen to the actual audio. So things like that are really important. Um, and just making sure that whatever we're posting it is gripping and engaging because you know, friends and family, they will unfollow us a lot of the time. And so we have to make sure that we're using those shares that we have wisely said they'll just go really graphic for and expect people to watch it. Kind of give people a little bit more freedom to kind of fit into something they want to see. So environment health, you know, share videos of, you know, Nice Animals in sanctuaries. It'd be varied in what you share. Don't stick to ardently to save the animal ethics side of stuff. Share that stuff. Of course we share a whole bunch of other stuff as well to kind of filter out and make people feel more comfortable with the content you're producing.

Kevin Lahey:

So you're, you're one of the few social media activists that has, has somehow made this, this jump into mainstream media. You've been on television, you've been interviewed or been interviewed and even had a debate on, on live television. How did, how did you make that happen? How did you get onto tv? Because if we could all get on tv so that everyone could see us, this movement would move so much faster.

Earthling Ed:

It was, um, it was kind of a fluid situation I suppose in the sense that the UK is quite small and um, you know, it'd be much harder to get on say, national TV in America and Canada as well. But UK is quite small and so we kind of have that in our favor and I was just contacted by someone because they were actually vegan themselves. And this is what's really great is the more vegans we have an influential positions, the more power it gives us as vegans to get into, you know, on tv or get into positions where our voice can be amplified to so many more people. And so the lady who kind of asked me if I could be on the show was a Vegan itself and she'd been authorized by the BBC to produce a lot of begin to segments. And so she wanted me to come on do that. So it was kind of been reached out to by the BBC and prove that, you know, they'd seen the, you know, the content I've made the interviews, they'd seen the way they speak to people. They thought that I would create like a healthy discussion on television, which was, which was great. But yeah, more vegans, we get in these positions, more vegans producing content on live TV or produced in documentaries for, for television or wherever it is online. The more power gives to us to get into these positions and to put ourselves in on a platform where our voices and just going into those echo chambers allows echo bubbles, is again out to the mainstream consciousness where people wouldn't necessarily see otherwise. And this has nothing. People who have jobs and they think, well, what can I do as, you know, as a Vegan in this job? Or can you bring in speakers? Can you bring any, no people to come in and talk about these issue. There's so many things we can do in our day to day lives that maybe we don't always think about, but look at what job you have. Can you bring a Vegan role model and let's talk to your employees or to talk to your boss or whoever is in genetic conversation that way as well.

Kevin Lahey:

Yeah, I bet there's a lot of people who have full time jobs that would like to do more, would like to be maybe a full time activist but they can't or they're too. They're too scared to do it or whatever reason. There's a lot of good reasons to, to not be able to. Um, so I was watching some videos today and yesterday and I saw, I don't even want to describe what I saw but made me feel terrible, you know, inside. And it made me want to ask you this question about humanity and, and losing faith. Like how do you, how do you feel now? Because I still think that today, you know, whatever today's date is, um, is a worst day than yesterday for animals. And yesterday was a worst day than the previous day for animals. It literally gets worse every single day. And eventually there we will turn the tide because more and more people are becoming conscious. But in the meantime, so much suffering keeps happening. So how do you, how do you not lose faith in humanity?

Earthling Ed:

That's a hard question. It's a great question and it's not an easy one to necessarily to rationalize, but, and you're right, I always think it's so good that we surround ourselves with positive information and positive news and we look at the increase in Vegan sales and when we fill ourselves with things that helpful and kind of inspiring, but we mustn't lose touch with the reality of the situation and what's occurring. And if we look in the UK for example, you know, dairy consumption is dropping. I'm red meat consumption is dropping, but the consumption of chickens rising. And so in that sense, more animals being killed because you know, March chickens, I mean killed to make up for the decrease in, in other animals being killed. And that's really difficult. You look at say China and India and the booming economies, but also the booming agriculture industries there and the number of animals that killings rising. And so there is this trend where there is progress being made, but actually the progress isn't necessarily outweighing the, you know, the negative side of things yet. But as you said that that title will change and it definitely will change. And I was speaking to him the other day and asked them about this. I said, you know, I find it really difficult because I'm trying my best and I want to be positive and I want to be optimistic, but I'm seeing this stuff that's making me think, are we actually get in anywhere and is this going to change? And he said, look, I promise you that, you know, it's going to feel like it's getting worse. But it will get to that point where that tide changes or we get over that hump. And then it plateaus, often it starts to pop in and it will happen even in places like China and India and places where we think that there's no hope currently, these places will change. It will happen too soon. And I left there again. He's right. You know how we are going to go for these dark days and we're going to go through these periods of time where things won't necessarily be going in the right direction. But it's, it's not a process of it being continuously smooth operating. You know, we're going to have bumps in the road, we're going to see things that we don't want to see and hear about. Things we don't want to hear. We're going to lose balls on the way. But it's about that progress. Been continual and making sure the food technology, it, it, it's been pushed into these areas, making sure the activism has been pushing his areas, making sure that education is getting out there and it will. And the way that I kind of, the way that I, I try and make myself feel better was I do have these days, you know, and they, they're the frequent, what you think, you know, what's the point, you know, how are we going to solve this? But the reality is, is if people like us, if we don't do something that no one is going to, and I think put in the expectation that responsibility on our shoulders is heavy, but at the same time it's grounding. And it's humbling because you think, well, I don't have a choice. And I think if we can take the choice and that kind of air force, should I, shouldn't I out the equation? I think I have to do this. Then all of a sudden, all these kinds of these discrepancies in these things that might not be bring us down, become a little bit more inconsequential because we have a job to do. We have a task to do and we can't lose sight of what it is that we have to do. Um, and we, we've got to know, we've absolutely got to. I think that's what keeps me on track and it helps me keep faith because people will change. People are inherently good that just in the system that installs bad beliefs and bad practices, but inherently we are a good compassionate species for the most part. And if we can just help people rediscover that part of them, then we can push this so much faster, but it will happen. And what I love about talking to people as, as you realize just how much people agree with what we want and how we feel and they just need to get these excuses out the way, get these kind of egotistical kind of ideas out of the way and then they understand what we're saying. And I love having those conversations because it restores my faith. I see people. It's been good again and that's what we have to do. Don't, don't become too shrouded in that misanthropy that can be so easy to feel, but instead look for the good in people and see the change. Because, you know, I wasn't born Vegan and I changed and as far as I'm concerned, that means anyone can change it. And that's how we don't lose sight of the bigger patrion one is we have to achieve a lot along the lines of, uh, of staying, staying positive. I just, I need to be a, I need to be honest that I'm a little worried about you because you're going nonstop. I mean your, your traveling around the world. You're, you're all in on this fight and, and you're doing, you're doing amazing work. But, but, uh, you know, I worry about, uh, about you burning out. So how are you taking care of you? That's a work in progress on something I've been thinking about more and I kind of always put his pressure myself to I guess how have things in the future that I want to do and being full time and, and, and you know, in dating and getting paid to do this, does that responsibility and accountability that I feel that I need to keep pushing to do more and to prove myself and to make sure that people think I'm junior adequate job in that I noticed probably entirely self inflicted and isn't necessarily representative of how people follow me, fail about me. But that's something that I feel and I need to probably encourage, you know, I kind of situations where I say do as I say, not as I do and I always say to people, please take time off, you know, go enjoy stuff, have a holiday, take a day off, don't go any phones, all these things is what I say to people all the time, like be sustainable, but then I don't necessarily and not to them in my day to day life. So it's about doing what I say I should do and implementing that, you know, I love film. Um, I've always had. So this about going to the cinema, it's about watching a good tv series and just getting myself, I guess in Ghost are immersed into a fiction world. There's probably oddly reassuring components and things that happen here. And just give my, give my mind a break and meditation is probably good. Yoga is probably good. There's 101 things that I know of goods and it's just about doing them I think is the next step. And probably eating a whole foods plant based and less fried. So I would help as well. All right. Make make sure you do them because we need, we need you to stick around. Yeah. One hundred percent. So for those who don't know what you look like, you have long hair and a beard. A are you Jesus? I wish responsibility. You're preaching peace and uh, I just feel like you could be Jesus incarnate. Um, but how do you, how do you deal with, with the religious aspect? I'm just curious because if I always say if Jesus was here and he saw slaughterhouses, you know, he, he would just drop to his knees and cry, you know, and, and to me that's all I need. Just to see that picture. But do you think, do you think it's harder speaking to someone who is religious because they use the Bible is just the vacation? I do. I think there's this, there's a couple of reasons for that. You know, when we speak to them as soon as not bacon, we have that social indoctrination. We need to get through people that subscribe to a religion. Not only do you have this social indoctrination, we have that religious indoctrination and when someone is being almost ordained by, by a day two to be able to consume animals, me someone who's an outreach person, just a human, um, the power and the, the, the credibility of my voice is diminished because I am nothing compared to the day to day. I'm subscribed to all worship. And so that makes it challenging because it's kind of like, what, what credentials do I have a who am I to kind of speak of, uh, of a, um, you know, a deputy. And I think it's kind of what you were saying is that just simplifying it down and saying like, you know, I don't, I always, I always try and get people on that level. I think it's important even if it's a religion that we don't agree with, you know, Islam, Christianity, Judaism or whatever it is we don't agree to. I think we have to come at people from that level at NBC. It's how they feel and sometimes I've had vegans when they get involved in religious conversations, it becomes more of a conversation about the religion and we lose sight of what we were actually talking about. So I think meet them on their level in it and simplify by saying, you know, back in the time where these, these, these holy texts were in back in the time when the prophets were around. It was a very different world and you know, couldn't go into whole foods and beyond Meat Burger, right? It was a different climate, different world and what was necessary back then. It's very different to what is necessary today. So I think it's good to admit, you know, maybe Jesus did he animals, maybe you did eat fish, but he did so probably because he had to, to survive and he had to defeat people who needed it. But we don't live in that world now. And if Jesus came down today and he saw what we were doing to his animals, you know, God's animals, that he will be shocked and appalled like you say, he, because the, these, these religions, they preach peace and compassion, tolerance and equality, or at least you know, they claim to. And if they truly preach these things, then that obviously applies to, to all life. And know I had this conversation with this, um, these Texans when I was in the US. Um, and you know, they were using the religion, the religion card, the, the, you know, the God card. And I said, well, if you think about it this way, now has god created life to be perfect. And it was like, yes, of course, you know, our life's perfect. I said so. So God makes no mistakes. There's no, of course, God, God makes no mistakes. And I said, well, why have we taken God's creatures then who you know as you proclaim a perfect in their design, why are we taking the chickens and the pigs and the cows and the sheep and why are we modified them? And why have we changed them to make them more useful to us? So now the dairy cows produce up to 10 times more milk. The chickens grow to be so big by six weeks that then they're slaughtered. Like if God is almost be perfect, then Shirley is a fence to what we're doing to them because we're actually saying you didn't do a good enough job. You are imperfect. And the creatures you have created that also empathize and you're playing God by doing these things. Instead, I just said, look, I, I believe that you know, God is offended by her actions. And he just looked at me and he started smiling his lip. And, and that was that. But I just thought, you know, what we do to animals is so grotesque and disgusting that only the devil would ever be happy with what we're doing. You know, you put in a Jesus and the devil in a slaughterhouse and you know the devil would relish that opportunity, but Jesus would cry as you say we. Because the violence and the brutality is so is so contradictory to the philosophy of a heaven or God or you know, a prophet that the two don't correlate a all. It's disturbing that people can use something that is supposed to preach, love to justify violence and I guess the issues of religion as a whole is you can use the Bible or the Torah in order to justify just about any action. The Bible was used to justify slavery. It still is today used to justify homophobia. It's, it's disturbing because it's so subjective and in it and its teachings. I think that's an issue, but if we simplify it down, hopefully that encourages people to learn. But you would hope so.

Kevin Lahey:

Yeah. I consider Jesus to be love. Like just one word. And I asked that question a lot. How would you define Jesus in one word? And, and often the response is love. And so I consider you to be loved to Edd by, by making that reference because it, that was a good answer. Thank you. Are Okay. So I want to make sure we've, uh, we've got time for you to talk about search. So tell us, tell us what your organization is about.

Earthling Ed:

Yeah. So, um, I run an organization here and London with my partner is meditation called surge and we basically, um, try and fall. I'm like, well, what we do is we create campaigns and protests and stuff. The big thing we do is animal rights march every year. Um, and the next time, right is my protection, the 25th of August. I'm hoping to have 10,000 people here in London, but it's also taking place in 24, might be 25 cities around the world. So we should have tens of thousands of people marching in the same day in different cities. So we try and just build communities. We try and foster that. We made a documentary last year called land of hope and glory, which is an expo day of UK animal farming and to look, you know, the way we treat animals in this country and the farming practices and indeed the slaughtering practices as well. Um, we, we have a van that we drive around England and the UK and we go to universities and we do outreach on campuses where the students, you know, we screened land of hope and glory. I do a talk, there's a q and a and we just try and engage with students as much as possible because, you know, students, uh, allegedly know then that the end of the next generation of, of, of, of employees, but also of critical thinkers and if we can stimulate people at that age too to be Vegan and then that bodes well for the future of our species and indeed our planet. So we do try and do as much we kind of are in England and, and indeed the rest of the UK to spread that message is in a positive way, hopefully insightful and impactful way as well. Where can people find out more? Yeah. So there's a facebook page search, we have a website which is ww dot such activism.com. Um, and those are the two main places that you can find this. We've got an instagram as well, slippage activism, asking. That's called the website and facebook are the two main pages.

Kevin Lahey:

Okay, great. We'll share all the info in the show notes too so our listeners can check them out. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for, for being on the show. Thank you for having these. These sometimes very, very difficult and frustrating conversations and thank you for having a voice for the voiceless and uh, and thanks for being persistent with us. I know we tried to connect in person, but uh, it didn't work out. You were really super busy in Toronto. We just missed you. Um, but, uh, we, we really appreciate you being on the show. Thank you.

Ben Le Roi:

My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. I really am. I really appreciate it as well. It'd be nice to speak to you both. Thanks Ed.

Kevin Lahey:

All right, Ben, we're back. We finally interviewed earthling Ed. We said we were going to do it and we did it.

Ben Le Roi:

Yeah, that was cool. But you know, he's, he's the one guy who I just kind of hang on every word. He's just got this, this way of speaking. He saw articulate and he makes, he's the guy that takes everything that we're thinking and puts it into words and they're like, yes. Yeah, that's it. That's how to say it. Like he just, he, he's got a, he's got a real talent and uh, and he's using it for good.

Kevin Lahey:

I forgot to ask them about the, the example he used with, uh, with the dog. Do you remember I told you about this. He, he used this example

Ben Le Roi:

when I saw the same. The same. The story that you told when we first started the show? Yeah. So I should have asked or you wanted to know if he, if he heard our first episode and took it from you? If he listens to the liver can podcast. I think. I think it's just such a, an accurate analogy, right? Came up with it. Both kind of came out of it. Yeah, I can totally do that.

Kevin Lahey:

And, and so when you said what you just said about him, like this is how I would want to say it. Like I've felt that way many, many times listening to earthlink ed speak because he says it just perfectly and all that, like, yes, that's exactly how I would've wanted to say in that conversation. Um, but yeah, the, the dog example I was referring to, for those who don't know it was if, if somebody is walking by and they see an abuser hurting a dog, say with a bat or a stick or something for you to just continue walking is, is a non-action right? Sent to not say anything to not do anything. And that's basically veganism for you to go put$20 in that guy's pocket is to continue eating animal products for you to stop him, you know, grab him by the wrist, look them in the eye and say enough or to at least voice your opinion like, hey, knock it off. Please don't do that. Those are all forms of activism. And so it's, it's a really important distinction. A lot of people think that just veganism is enough, but really that's just walking by when you see, you know, you know what's happening, you see the abuse and you just keep walking. So that's why I think activism is so important. And obviously earthling Ed agrees.

Ben Le Roi:

Yeah. So does that validate your analogy now? Now you're like, ed likes to. I'm like, somebody liked my knowledge. I, when I heard it, I told

Kevin Lahey:

you it was great. I think it's perfect. Yeah, veganism is a non action. We have to be activists, you know, and there's lots of ways to be activists. I'm not saying you have to shout in the street or hold up a sign. You can, you can do one of the activists tips that we, we mentioned at the end of the show, every show and it'll get to one today that's not real a in your face. Cool. We need more of those because people don't like in your face. Sometimes you need to be in your face too. But yeah, this one's. This one's a little more subtle. Totally. We need all kinds of strategies. So yeah, it was a great, great interview. I'm really happy that he came on the show. He was nice enough to talk with us back and forth and figure out a date for, for this. And um, yeah, he's just really super busy. He's doing a lot, so I totally commend them. Glad he's out there. Will be. Takes Care of himself. Yeah, me too. Alright, so let's move on to news of the day. Tyson foods deserves a hug. Oh, easy. Easy, easy. I remember when I said, and again you worked up something about Mcdonald's. I can't remember. That was, that was a long time ago when we talked about the big Vegan Burger, a Veggie Burger. So now it's all is forgiven, right? Yeah. So we're definitely not saying that and we don't want to give any meat producing or I should say animal slaughtering companies a heart of approval or a seal of approval or exploiters. Exploiters in general. Yeah, right. Any exploitation. But the CEO of Tyson, who's name is Tim Hayes, I forget his name now. Um, but uh, what's his name? Tom Hayes said, if we can grow the meat without the animal, why wouldn't we? That was his quote. He's the CEO of Tyson foods and he just said this, this is brand new news just came out today. Um, and so they're, they're putting money into these plant based alternatives as well as clean meat. So two different categories and they're saying if we can give people what the people want, which is protein or meat, however you want to define it without the slaughtering of animals, why wouldn't we do that? That makes way more sense. It's easier from so many different perspectives. We cut out all the problems of disease and you know, animal cruelty and the environmental costs. So of course they're interested and they're not just saying it, they're putting their money where their mouth is by investing in these different companies. So they have invested in an Israeli startup company, a, which is a clean meat company. And they also invested in Memphis meats and then also beyond meat, I believe. Yeah. So Memphis meats beyond me and it's called future meet technology. So that

Ben Le Roi:

those are two clean meat companies. And one totally plant based Meat Company they have put out, we don't know how much, but probably millions of dollars in each of those three companies. Okay. I'm going to be critical and positive. Okay. I'm ready for it. All right. All right. Sounds like a good ben response. Let's not get, you know, let's not praise this guy too much. He's not doing this because it's the right thing to do. Um, and, and I mean, it's, it's smart business. It's great pr to come out with this, uh, with this press release and to get this, uh, this story covered because they've, they've got a, they got their hands in both pots here. It's, so if people get upset with what they're saying, then they don't buy clean meat or plant based meat and they keep eating Tyson foods. If they do listen to what he's saying and they start buying clean meat or plant based meat, they buy Tyson foods. So he's promoting another product. So this isn't him doing it because it's the right thing to do. But people like Tom Hayes, uh, you know, they get to where they are because they understand business, they understand trends to understand economics and uh, and you know, they're, they're brilliant at it, so he, he sees where this is going and, and that's the positive here is that

Speaker 4:

when

Ben Le Roi:

giant corporations like this see that, that's where they're going to make their money.

Speaker 4:

And, and

Ben Le Roi:

instead of just being stubborn and saying, no, no, what we're doing is okay, and is that the coal, the ones, the companies that don't get into clean meat and that don't get into plant based meat, they're the ones that are going to disappear. They're the ones that are going to be the, the kodaks right. You, the Kodak is gone because they didn't, they didn't transfer to transform into a digital company. So the tastes and foods, they'll still be around, but the companies that don't do anything will be the next Kodak. So it's, it's smart business on their part, but it shows the, the economy is headed in the right direction, which is, which is what we can be excited about. Yeah. It's him saying this proves that the plant based movement is not a fringe movement. You, you don't say this, if it's just like a little tiny portion of the population and you don't believe it's going anywhere, you know, the CEO of Tyson foods, which is responsible for I think 20 percent of all meat production in the USA. That's really substantial. So for him to say this is something we're betting on, we're putting millions of dollars into this industry and we're looking forward to it. To me that's, that's just more proof. This is not a fringe movement. This is going to be mainstream

Kevin Lahey:

when Bill Gates and Richard Branson and Tyson foods and giant corporations are, are investing in plant based, living your, you know, it's, it's. Yeah, it's sticking around for sure. Although when I first saw the article I thought of, um, I know you just said that he didn't do it out of the goodness of his heart, but did you ever see the Adam Sandler movie? I can't remember which one it was, but at the end he's talking if it's post like 1998, then probably not because he's one downhill. It might've been. There's one at the end where he's trying to convince all the investors have a company to, to do something or other to use their heart rather than their wallet. And, and he, uh, he asked one guy what he does for a living and he says, I own 100 slaughterhouses and, and, and Adam Sandler says, what did you want to do when you're a little, he's, well, I liked animals. And he said, no, you didn't, you didn't, you didn't go in the right direction there. So maybe Tom Hayes just feels bad. You think I wouldn't bet on a change of heart. Now he's smart. So all is smart businessman. He got to where he is because he's smart and get a business. Well, we can be excited about the trends, not the people. Yeah. Until, unless he came out and said, hey, I'm sorry. Everything I've been doing is wrong and ethically this is what we need to do. Then we can praise him. But for now it's just, it's just the trends and it's the direction that we're making him go. Yeah. Whichever way we get there, whether it's through hearts or wallets, that's fine. We're getting a vegan world. It's going to happen. So I, I embrace it and I'm really happy to, to read this article. So that is good news. All right. Let's, uh, let's talk about the excuse of the day. I wish earthlink had stuck around. Alright, let's get hypothetical. You want to go to a hypothetical here? Okay. Are we on a different planet or something? We're here on an island to Kevin. You're on a deserted island and it's just you and a pig. Nothing else. Oh, what are you going to do it? Are you still going to be Vegan, Kevin? I mean, it's just me and the pig. I can't even eat raw pork. Like I would get sick. I would die from that raw pig. Flesh. Sorry. Um, yeah, I, I think in that reality, if it really was me there, I'd probably just like snuggle with the pig and starve away. I'd be like, listen, it's over. How long could I survive eating a pig anyway? It's not like there's a refrigerator or freezer. I can't store the meat. Maybe it'll give me a couple extra days. I'd rather just be happy, I guess. I don't know. You know what? Maybe I would. Maybe I, I don't know, unless I was really in that situation. And I remember when, um, when I was little, my dad asked me if I could eat our dog if we had to, if we were really starving. He said, you know, I, I would kill him and I would cook them in you, all you have to do is eat them. I'm like, ah, I don't. That guy can. Um, but if I was really literally starving to death, I don't know, maybe I would. But the real answer to that question is we are not on a deserted island. And to make that a more accurate hypothetical, it would be a deserted island with the grocery store, with a whole bunch of plant based options in that grocery store. Because that's the reality we have today in 2018. We have lots of options. And morality is always about doing, causing the least amount of harm, doing the most amount of good. And so if we can eat plants and be nourished, well fed, healthy and not caused suffering, not cause an unnecessary death, then why wouldn't we?

Ben Le Roi:

Exactly. I always ask when people mentioned that to me too, I'll always be like, okay, so let me get this right. So I'll set the stage. So I show I, I, there's a shipwreck. I'm the only survivor. I end up on this deserted island and I find out that there's a pig there. Yep. Yeah. So what do you do? So I find out what that pigs eating.

Kevin Lahey:

There you go. Yeah. You know what I was thinking about that as you were just saying that the pig can. Pigs can smell, I forget how far underground, but they can sniff truffle mushrooms really far underground. So they dig them up and they eat them. So yeah, I would just have to grab it before he gets. It would be really frustrated.

Ben Le Roi:

Just follow around the pig and the pig. Teach me how to survive on this magical island.

Kevin Lahey:

It's got to be some plants on the island, right? Oh, how's the pink surviving? Yeah. Yeah. Otherwise you're both starving to death and then. Yeah. Anyway. Alright. Alright. Alright, let's wrap this up. Yeah, let's move onto activist tip of the day. What do we got? So

Ben Le Roi:

our tip is inspired from, uh, from our last episode when we were talking to Yan from fibered, uh, and I noticed just in the way he was talking, just the language that he used. And so it made me think like, this is, this is, uh, an activist tip that we can use in our, in our everyday lives now. So, uh, and you may not even think of it as activism, but it is, let's just change our language. Let's eliminate species this language. And if we're talking about, uh, I mean, you just caught yourself doing it. If we're talking about someone's talking, you go bake Bacon, we call it what it is, it's a, it's a piglet, piglet strip of flesh, or you know, or if someone's eating a steak, it's cal flash or whatever it is. Let's, let's eliminate the, the language that hides in the language that the animal agriculture industry wants us to use the, that they for generations tried to condition us to use. So let's not use it anymore. Let's be honest and call things what they are.

Kevin Lahey:

Totally. My favorite is milk. Like if we're talking about different kinds of milk, there are so many of them now. There's oat milk, there's hemp milk, there's even banana milk, there's soy milk, there's almond milk, uh, and, and just milk, you know, forever. It has been cow's milk, but I don't think that we can just call it milk anymore. Like there's all these other milks that we need to distinguish it from. So let's call it what it is, which is breast milk. I think we should call it exactly. Literally every time we refer to milk, we should put a qualifier before the word milk. What kind of milk is it? Coconut milk or is it breast milk?

Ben Le Roi:

Yeah. And try and try and avoid language too. That makes a, uh, that's, that negatively depicts nonhuman it persons. Right. So, you know, like eating like a pig or a. I don't know what else are sweating like a hog or or all these killing two birds with one stone. All these. Some of them are cliche, some of them are just become language, normal language. Just a. just eliminate them because we don't need to talk about non humans in a negative light as if they're not as great as humans.

Kevin Lahey:

Yeah. I noticed that Yan would would refer to all the animal friends as either friends or persons and now that was really powerful when, when he said it. Yeah. I learned a lot just from just chatting a really cool watch your language, everyone. Um, if you say it the right way, it will, it will prompt the right kind of conversation and then absolutely. Then it gets people thinking and that's what we need. Alright. Well that wraps up this episode. Thank you guys for listening and as always been a Vegan.

Speaker 5:

Thank you for listening to weekend.